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Chatting about coaching and accountability with Gail Rappolt

Hi, everybody, I’m Melanie Parish, and I am here live with you, I thought it would be a fun experiment to come on the show with my friend Gail Rappolt. And it’s not like our regular scheduled show. But it is international coaching week. And I was talking with her and I thought it’d be really fun. She’s one of the coaches I admire in the world. Her leadership journey is long and interesting. And she is somebody that I love to talk with. She’s an executive coach and consultant, and private practice. And she used to be a senior associate within Niagara Institute for about 20 years. And and they were at she also was a superintendent with the Ontario Ministry of Education. So she had real strong leadership experience before she became a coach. And she helped develop curriculum there and do all sorts of things. And, and she is a dear, dear friend. So I am so excited to have her on the show today.

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Welcome to the show. Gail.

Thank you, Melanie.

Well, we were having a conversation and I said, Hey, do you want to come do a little quickie podcast? Just we’re gonna, you know, just talk a little bit. And you said, Well, let’s talk about coaching and accountability. And, and I said, Okay, that sounds fun. And I’m really curious why you thought you we should talk about coaching and accountability?

Well, it’s something I’ve thought about a lot over my career and my coaching experience, but I had an experience a few weeks ago, I was in a learning program with a woman called Paula Cole Jones. And it was about transforming organizations. And at one point somebody asked, but what about accountability? And she said, and I’m paraphrasing here, but she said something like, oh, oh, I see what you’re asking. When I use the word accountability, I don’t mean some kind of a checkbox or measuring somebody against some predetermined standard or looking for what they’re doing wrong. That’s not what I mean, by accountability at all. I mean, accountability to the relationship. I mean, accountability to the relationship, and the commitment that you have made in that relationship to your work together.

That’s interesting. Yeah, I think I and I’m curious, I love that idea that you’re using their relationship to power something, I mean, clients come to coaching, I think, because they want something to happen. I mean, nobody comes to coaching and goes, Hey, I just want you to help me maintain my status quo. They’re there, they’re always coming because they want something. And, and, and I love this idea of their relationship, the accountability, the relationship, you know, the the relationship is powerful, and service to the client. That’s really cool.

So, that’s often what people say, right? When they when they want to hire you as a coach, they say, Well, you know, I need this and I need you to hold me accountable. And do something in that tone of voice or you know, there is an implication of sort of, power over or when adminship or There’s a, there’s a bit of a ring of negativity to that in some weird way. And I want to dispel that accountability to the relationship means that we trust each other enough in our covenant or our commitment, or our relationship that we have built. That you can push back, you can question me as a client, you can tell me why what I’m suggesting isn’t going to work for you. And then I have to have a strong enough relationship that I can push back also, and ask questions like, Huh. I’m wondering if this is really the issue. Or if there’s something under this that we need to talk about? I need to have a deep enough relationship that when we’re goal setting, and talking about accountability, that both of those can happen.

It’s so funny. Do you ever give, like homework or something, you agree on homework, and you sort of have this feeling that they’re never going to do it? Do you ever you ever wonder like I’ve had, it happens less for me now. But when I was an earlier, Coach, I would have that feeling when I was like, I don’t know.

I think there’s two things there. Melanie, one is, I might have had that feeling. And I might be wondering if I’m pushing them a bit further than they’re ready to go right now. But also, sometimes in the beginning, they don’t feel confident enough in the coaching relationship to push back. Yeah. So they say yes, but they really mean yes. And I think sometimes as experienced coaches, we can hear that in their voice. And so they’ll say, Well, yes. And I’ll say, didn’t sound like yes to me. Let’s think about this and more. So I think there’s nuance of our ability as experienced coaches to listen for what’s under the wings behind the wings. I think you bring up a really good point, because every everybody doesn’t meet their monthly or weekly goals. Sometimes goodness knows. I don’t with my coach. But if it’s something that’s come up a couple of times, they certainly by the third time and hasn’t been followed through, then there’s something deeper than I think we’re really into trust and vulnerability and, and a deeper conversation.

It’s funny, I love how different we are in some ways. And this is one of them. Because I don’t know if I I’ve gotten recently I just have decided if people don’t do their homework, I just don’t want like if they if I know it’s something we’ve agreed on, and they believe it’s something they should do. I have started like just sending them off to do it. Like like just saying, Oh, well, you didn’t do your homework. Well, I guess we can’t. We shouldn’t coach today, why don’t you go do your homework? And they’ll be shocked because we had the session scheduled. And they’re expecting sort of that. Like schoolmarm, like oh, let me hold you accountable. instead? I’m like, Well, that was the most important thing you thought you were going to do for yourself. So if you haven’t done that, let’s start there. And how about next week, let’s meet and it kind of shakes them up. And mostly after that they do their homework.

I really liked that and it probably is a throwback to my teaching. Yes, that kind of that kind of accountability. Though, Melanie I think can only happen when there is a deep relationship.

Yeah, I mean, my clients stay around a long time so it’s usually a shake him up kind of thing and I obviously can’t do it all day because I get paid to coach not to send them away. But but I do love it and it’s I like busting neuro pathways around accountability because people do make stuff up about it. And they think they’re going to be in trouble and they want me to be the heavy and they I don’t want to do any of that. I want to be like the breath of fresh air that tells them that maybe they’re what they needed is self care. or, you know, I always like to bust their neuro pathways around accountability and then invite them to what they deeply desire for themselves. Like, what’s the thing? What’s the thing they’re afraid to step into? Or what’s the thing that they that they deeply want that they didn’t step up to the plate on this week, but they might next or what’s the what’s the opportunity for their their whole being that they didn’t, didn’t show up for this week that they might axed?

I really like that notion of whole being. And I think that something that over my years of coaching, I’m much more comfortable asking people about their whole being and checking in on body, mind, heart and soul, and having that be a part of the coaching. And I think the the notion of whole being and accountability for the whole being, it’s about their relationship with themselves.

Yeah, yeah, I think I think that’s the deepest opera, like that’s one of the deepest offerings, as a coach we have around accountability is to invite them to explore a new way of being with themselves. I had a client one time, and who had coached and coached and coached about meditation and and at some point, I challenged her to be 100 percenter. Like just to do whatever it was that she believed she should do 100% of the time. And to see what that was like. And, and she did for time, I don’t know if she still does, she’s not my client now. But the the exploration of what she got from that, in that time period, was so powerful for her that it was really interesting for her to see what she got from actually holding that space for doing things 100% For one wanted.

I guess the other piece for me, because much of my coaching certainly with the Institute, always with the Institute was about senior leaders who were dealing with accountability with reports. And I think as a coach, I don’t know about you, but that often becomes about how to hold the port’s accountable. And I think that’s a place where instruments and procedures and checkbox he kinds of evaluations. For my in my mind that that’s why people don’t like doing evaluations at year end or six month because they’re not built around relationship. They’re, they’re built around external things that may or may not even fit with what’s going on. And so it was always a big part of my work with corporate clients, executive clients, helping them figure out how to make your evaluations and those kinds of interactions with staff meaningful and positive.

Well, I think I think that it is interesting what we make up about that too. Like, I remember, as an early leader, when I was kind of failing as a leader, I had a lot of checklists, and check ins and people reporting to me, and, and now I think more about like, I do daily check ins with some with my team, like I and I get them to show like we just look at the work together. And I go on the journey. And it might be a five minute meeting every day. So people who say, Oh, I couldn’t be with my team every day. Well, yeah, you can if you meet for two minutes and you go hey, what do you got to show me? It’s no longer to me like I might meet with my team 20 minutes a week, but I see them every day. I know what they’re working on. And they have access to me for decisions and and looking at things and I know exactly what they’re working on. And they don’t have to do any reporting at all. They just pull it up and show me on Zoom and as opposed to an hour meeting where they report to me or I’m We have to we, you know, talk about things. So it’s I think there’s some busting of ideas about accountability and changes in workflow. And if anybody’s interested in what I’m talking about, it’s more like a gimble walk in my book that I’m talking about, is is a way to, it’s like pre accountability. It’s like the the idea that you’re seeing the work where it’s happening, as opposed to following up on it later. And I really liked that, I think it really changes the way a leadership relationship feels. With a direct report.

I really, I think, for me, the operative word you just said is feels. And that’s where I, that’s where I’m make the link to relationship, and trust, and the commitment that we have as a coach and client. I want to come back to this notion, though, when you talked about breaking the neural pathways and things. I think always, you know, coaches have some form of, of entry plan or, or something in gathering kind of material that clients fill out to begin with, and usually it has some big goals, or even life goals, or how, you know, what, what will make you feel like you’re a successful person at the end of your life. And one of the things that I think I’m much better at than when I was a beginning coach is holding them to those, you know, not getting buried in the weeds on the day to day kind of this is another aspect of accountability. You know, did you do this, this investor on last week’s list, but making sure that at least every second or third coaching session, and coming back to the things they wrote in that initial coaching agreement? And you know, and how are you doing with wanting to have this kind of relationship with your children, because sometimes they do put those kinds of things. And I think that’s a part of accountability that that can get lost if we get buried in a client’s day to day stuff.

I think that’s really interesting. And I noticed the sort of meta conversation of how do we as coaches be accountable to our clients and helping them hold their agenda to any last words before we stop talking about accountability? So we keep this nice and short for people who want a short drive podcast.
Um, the only thing I would say is, as a coach, it’s really important that I model a certain level of vulnerability in order to build this relationship. You know, simple things like I started questioning in my head, I know it’s not very good. And I own it. And I say, You know what, that’s not a very good question. Let me let me start over. I think those kinds of things, especially early on with a client, it gives them permission to not be perfect not to be 100%. right all the time. I think that’s another piece and I very driven society, that’s really critical. We have to model that as a coach, if we want them to be okay with accountability. It helps build a relationship build trust.

Um, the only thing I would say is, as a coach, it’s really important that I model a certain level of vulnerability in order to build this relationship. You know, simple things like I started questioning in my head, I know it’s not very good. And I own it. And I say, You know what, that’s not a very good question. Let me let me start over. I think those kinds of things, especially early on with a client, it gives them permission to not be perfect not to be 100%. right all the time. I think that’s another piece and I very driven society, that’s really critical. We have to model that as a coach, if we want them to be okay with accountability. It helps build a relationship build trust.

Well, Gail, thank you so much for being on the show. Do you want to share how people could find you if they wanted to hunt you down?

Sure. I, I will, as people can probably tell by this hair, which is not dyed, which I know is very cool these days that people dye their hair this color. Right now I have a Facebook post called illumination coaching, where I’m doing some blogging and working on a framework framework for living or a self coaching model. And right now, that’s the only place you’ll find me on social media. But I think Melanie you agreed that we could post this on there and yeah, it can Have a look at that. And I’d love some feedback. If they go back on former posts, they can have a look at the model and see what they think that would be fun.

Accountability to the relationship, and the commitment that you have made in that relationship to your work together. Share on X

That’s great. Thank you so much for being here today. Gail. It’s been a pleasure to have you.

Well, thank you. And I’m really honored to be asked I just, you know, for, for total transparency. Melanie, you were my coach at the time that I was getting my certification years ago, and I’m quite honored to be on a podcast with you. So thank you.

What year did you get certified? It’s been a while

2006 or seven. I mean, I was already coaching for several years before but then it kind of became apparent that people were gonna want to see that paper. So I differentiate my what I call small c coaching and most of my leadership career with capital seek coaching when I’m doing it as an executive level. So thanks again.

Well, I I have recommended you to several people that were too close in my circle to coach this year. So you are a coach in my circle that I am very comfortable recommending and it is a joy to have you on the show. Bye bye.

Thanks a lot. Bye bye.

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That was fun. I think we should do more of these little impromptu things. It’s been great being with you here today. Go experiment.

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Gail Rappolt

Gail is an executive coach and consultant in private practice and was a senior associate with the Niagara Institute for 20 years. The Niagara Institute (affiliate of the Centre for Creative Leadership) provides public executive leadership programs as well as custom programs for corporations and various levels of government. Gail has had an active practice since leaving the Hamilton Board of Education in 1998 where she had leadership roles as consultant, principal, and superintendent. Gail also worked as a senior superintendent with the Ontario Ministry of Education where she was seconded to develop the provincial standards for mathematics and language, on which the student provincial tests are designed.

Gail is certified in a number of leadership and personality instruments and has experience coaching and working with all public sector levels (municipal, provincial and federal) from first line supervisors to senior leaders at the executive table. In addition to her coaching certification, Gail has a Master’s Degree in Program Design and Implementation, and has a number of professional courses with National Training Laboratories on Change Management and Strategic Planning. Gail is an experienced and confident facilitator and speaker and has a reputation as collaborative, both in her planning and her program delivery.

Gail is described by her clients as thoughtful, professional, warm, and a person who has the unique ability to inspire people to reflect, self-assess and accept new challenges. Her breadth of personal leadership and management experiences add to her credibility as a coach.

 

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