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Unbelievable Future? AI and Coaching with Kerryn Griffiths

Hello, and welcome to the Experimental Leader podcast. I am Melanie Parish and I am so excited to be here with you today it is international coach coaching week.

And I am super excited to have a guest here with me to start off the show. Her name is Kerryn Griffiths, she’s been my friend, and a partner in coaching for over 15 years.

And let me tell you just a little bit about Kerryn. Kerryn is an innovative leader in the field of coaching. She’s best known as the founder and global coordinator of reciprocal coach, which is an international community of professional coaches who engage in reciprocal peer coaching, mentoring and supervision.

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Kerryn, welcome to the show. I’m so excited to have you here.

Thank you, Melanie, thank you for having me.

Well, and we have had all sorts of internet challenges as we’re trying to get the show recorded today. And I think it’s funny that you have three internet’s and I have two. And we finally have just decided to say, Well, screw that we’re gonna go ahead and record. So we apologize in advance for any little internet glitches that we have or freezing or anything that happens on the show. So with that permission, we can just do anything can happen. And it’s great to have you. I would love for you to talk a little bit about reciprocal coach and why you started reciprocate in the first place.

Oh, well, that was an easy one. So many of us had given up our day jobs in order to start poaching start a coaching business. And none of us had coaches, because we’ve given up our day jobs that would have paid for it. And so yeah, it was pretty obvious. And actually, it was astounding to me that it wasn’t already happening, that the coaches, you know, weren’t collaborating together to coach each other.

Well, it’s, it’s a fascinating business. And you’ve been around for a long time. And you’ve been providing this for coaches and and for those of you who don’t know what reciprocal peer coaching is, I’ve been participating for a long time, but I get a coach and I take a client. And and so it’s an A magical exchange, where Karen helps me find coaches, and I always see it as like, the universe serving me up what I need. At any given time, that’s if I did, yeah, so it’s an interesting, it’s been a really interesting thing. But I am curious, I’m super excited to get to talk to you, because I know you match lots of people with coaches. And I know sometimes people are curious, when they think about hiring a coach, what should they think of and I thought it might be interesting to ask you what you think are important things or what people think are important things to think of when they’re choosing a coach for themselves.

Yeah, it’s interesting that you mentioned the word magical I mean, because I do hold that element and that just remembering that there’s an element of magic in there or whatever you call it, you know, something outside of all of our control anyway. So you end up in the coaching round that you end up with and who you get depends on who’s in there as well. So there’s that out those outside influences the status but yeah, when when you’re choosing coach for yourself, I mean, it can be hard work to choose a coach for yourself like.

I agree.

So yeah, let somebody else do it. Just like we do everything else and now we can.

outsource

Exactly.

Oh, well, just how how you think like what you think some of the things are that are important for people choosing a coach?

Openness was status. And I guess you know, that’s the whole coach position, you know, just being open to be surprised. Because who we think is going to be the best coach for us really may not be. And sometimes it’s that person that comes from left field. If we can open ourselves up to fully experiencing that person as our coach can be the best coach ever.

A client for so long of reciprocates, because I often find I have no idea what I would want in a coach. And I might think I know what I want. But when it comes down, down to it, usually I choose my coaches often on time zone.

Which seems sort of…

Well, except that it’s easy to schedule and my schedule is busy, so then I have less stress. So I want I want one sec to schedule with. Because I don’t want to have the suffering of you know, we can’t ever schedule and then everybody is upset. I’m so so time zone actually becomes really important. And I think it’s actually not that important for people who are hiring a coach that they get a schedule flow that works, you know, it’s weirdly and then…

Logistics is obviously the top priority, you know, you have to be able to you have to be available at the same time. So it doesn’t necessarily mean time zone look at availability. So that’s the number one thing that we look at first, are these two people going to be available at the same time? So that’s just given? That’s something that I totally, you know, even overlook, because it’s such a baseline consideration?

You love them so much that you want to coach them as well. Share on X

Yeah, well, I learned it because it used to not be a consideration. But I mean, that I started having coaches in Australia or New Zealand, and I was like, Oh my gosh, like, you know, we we have so little overlap in the business day. In fact, none and during the business day, and then somebody’s getting up really, really late.

So it’s not, you know, but you know, that match that North American, Asia Pacific, especially Australian New Zealand match works really well. When you’re not a full time coach working the business day, ran your work after hours. That’s what we do that match a lot. That’s not super well, because those people who work evenings have a coach because there’s somebody on the other side of the world working days.

Right? That’s right, that makes perfect sense. Yeah. So it’s not it. And that’s sort of the interesting thing, like what works for one person in a coach isn’t the thing that works for someone else. I also think that it’s so funny. When I think of Coach matching and hiring a coach, the things that people have said to me, like someone once told me, and you’ll probably laugh at this because you’ve coached with me and you’ve like, you’ve both been my coach, and you’ve been coached by me, and you know, kind of the kind of coach I am. And they’ve said that they’re afraid I would be too nice, like too much of a pushover. And it’s like, not experienced me. And so like they’ve done a sample session with me, and they think they hired someone because they thought they would be tougher. And I find that like, fascinating that I wasn’t tough enough in the samples.

Yeah, you know, we have had that. That’s an exceptional experience. To have coached together both sides. I mean, that happened years apart.

Yeah. And it’s really I think it’s really unique. I have other relationships like that I’ve had the opportunity to do that. And it is there’s an incredible intimacy to coaching on both sides. It’s it’s in fact my husband says I get all my intimacy needs met from coaching. And I think he means on the coach side, but to reciprocity of which doesn’t happen all the time. In fact, I think, probably do try to avoid that the back end.

So you’ll never ever coach someone and be coached by them at the same time, because that will almost inevitably lead to ethical dilemmas. But what happens is, is that at the end of a relationship, we ask people, whether they want to work together again, and whether they want to coach or be coached by the other. So we know who wants to, you know, and often when you’ve had a really great relationship with someone, you want to be on the other end of their code, if you’ve just coached them, you want to be on the other end of their coaching, or, you know, you love them so much that you want to coach them as well, if they want your coaching, and you just want to continue the relationship in whichever form. So yeah, so then only hope it happens when people actually want that. We otherwise we don’t do it.

It’s such an interesting, I mean, I think your business is so interesting, and you’ve done it such a long time now that this, you know, sort of matching, it’s almost like a dating service or something. I mean, it’s such a…

Well, that’s the funny thing, you know, I do, I do say that I’m a professional, but not the romantic kind. Although I do try with the romantic time, but I’m not very good at that.

I try with the romance.

But it was inspired was at the time when I started it. I was on online dating sites. And that was the inspiration.

Oh, how interesting. Yeah, I’m not as good at matching people. i Well, I’m not I mean, I don’t guess I’m good at matching them for anything. Although I tried to.

My matches haven’t gotten well. I did. I did match people that got married once, but then they got divorced. And after that, I don’t think any credit.

Marriage. I don’t think I’ve made it to date stage. That’s right.

What do you think? Yeah. Where do you think the coaching industry is going these days? What do you think’s like? What do you think about the things that have happened? You know, in terms of credentialing? There were there were some big changes about almost a year ago with credentialing. I guess I’m just curious what you think is up and coming for coaching? What do you think the challenges are in coaching? I’d love to dish a little with you about coaching as an industry.

Well, I’m smiling a bit because maybe just two days ago, I was listening to another coach who I think you know, you might have coached with Tony Latimer.

No, I don’t know, Tony.

And he was saying that, you know, basically with AI coaching, AI coaches do ACC level coaching in a snap. And, you know, my experience of AI coaching, I would agree with that, and virtually almost PCC level coaching in a snap, bear interest,

One degree who would agree, you know, when when talking about poaching components and technical, you know, those technical things? They do, you know, the AI coaches are doing very well. And so that’s a very interesting thought, when you think that AI coaches are doing ACC and virtually PCC level coaching.
Just like that, for free, in some cases, and unlimited. In all cases with AI. What does that suggest for where coaching is going?

Well, it depends on why we think people hire coaches.

Yeah. Why do people hire coaches? Yes. Why? Yes. Can I throw that question back at you?

I don’t know. I mean, because if if it’s just the quality of the questions, then AI might be better. But if it’s the idea that a person is along for the journey, then AI has nothing to offer.

And my experience of AI was, you know, I came out of that guy. Really great trends. Transactional coaching. Yeah, I mean, there’s no…

Need to solve a problem. The questions might help you get there. But if you want some Want to see you because the world is a lonely place? And it’s the loneliness of leadership, then what? AI has nothing to? I mean, maybe? I don’t know, I wouldn’t feel less lonely because I talked to a chat bot. Maybe someone?

And that comes back to that question, you know, why? Why do we think people are taking on coaching? And yeah, my experience of AI coaching was it was a great transactional coaching.

Yeah, I mean, I think real coaches might get better at the transactional coaching. Like, like, like real life coaches, probably are challenged by following the rules and being being compliant to the guidelines of coaching as a mentor, coach, and someone who’s helping to train coaches. I think that, like, you know, I teach coaching, and, and I’m like, Okay, we’re gonna just read these questions and try it, and people try to get too smart. And then they’re like, they lose the thread. Whereas like, the Chatbot, would just when I said, just try these questions, they’d be like, they read those questions. And then they’d feel good, because like, the client would go, Oh, yeah, that’s a brilliant question. Because there are only so many brilliant questions. We don’t need every single question to be a new question. Yeah, but I do think we need humans because I think people are lonely and alone. Such I didn’t. I didn’t know we were going to talk about chat bots.

No, no, no, I want to talk about bots as well, because it’s so controversial. And coaches have so much resistance actually. Around. Yeah, I listen to talk about.

No talking about chatbots. But I actually don’t think they replace coaches. I think they, I agree.

Well, might replace some coaches.

Just might need replacing coach can be replaced. Yeah, but they might deserve it. They might need you know, what?

What’s that? Yeah, but Coach bots will raise the bar for coaching. You know, it’s going well, it’s, you know, it really comes back to that same question. Why are people taking on coaches? If it’s for the transactional coaching? Yeah, great. Take a take a coach. But if you can respect that space, because there’s no you, you need to respect that space as the client, because the chat bots not gonna do that.

It’s just like the statistics on doulas at births. So if you have a doula who comes to a birth, the birth outcomes improve, and I’m not going to have statistics, because I didn’t know we were going to talk about doulas in this way either. But if you so if you’re you know birthing with a spouse or whatever in a room, and your outcome will improve if you bring in a doula, but your outcome will improve almost as much if you just bring in another woman to sit in the corner and talk to you. So it’s not skill, it’s person, which is what makes me think that that’s why people hire coaches to like be a it’s like being a doula to observe your life like it’s being present to. And, and someone to acknowledge the journey. At least that’s my…

I think it’s, it’s probably being done. I haven’t read one yet. But a study where you know, people get an AI coach, and they will get a real coach. And it would need to be with similar goals and see what happens, you know, that needs to be done to create study what a fun study.

Cool, well, I just am so thrilled that you were here with me today. What a fun conversation and happy international coaching week to you. I’m just I’m so excited for years. I’ve wanted to pull off some thing for international coaching week and here we are pulling off chat bots and doulas and you know, coaching, is there anything you want to say before we complete?

We circled back to the intention though.

We started out with what was our intention? We have an intention.

I’ve lost seven version of international coaching week and what do you want to celebrate about…

International coaching week?

Oh, that we do that what we do, and that what we do build so much more awareness and we just are we’ll just need more awareness. Can’t go wrong with more awareness.

I feel like not every person in the world needs a coach, probably every one in the world. Their lives if they bought in could be enhanced by a coach. And, but there’s sure a lot of joy that could be fostered if someone engaged or had the opportunity to engage with a coach or a coach bought the case. So, so I feel joy at the path I get to walk. And I’m super joyful that my paths sometimes crosses yours. So thank you so much for being here.

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Important Links: 

Kerryn Griffiths

An innovative leader in the field of coaching, Kerryn Griffiths is best known as the founder and global coordinator of ReciproCoach, an international community of professional coaches who engage in reciprocal peer coaching, mentoring and supervision.

In education, Kerryn is known for her contribution to the understanding of coaching as a model for effective learning.

Kerryn’s professional focus is on fusing together the principles and practices of education and coaching and utilizing the process as a powerful vehicle for large scale learning, change and development.

 

 

 

 

 

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