The show’s guest in this episode is Julianna Newland. She is an author and communication expert with over 30 years of experience in writing, public affairs, and government relations. Based in Indianapolis, she has worked in state government, nonprofits, and a Fortune 500 company. Her love for writing began as editor of her university newspaper and continues to shape her career. She lives in Indianapolis with her husband, journalist James G. Newland Jr., and their son, Patrick.

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Listen to the podcast here

Navigating Public Affairs and Storytelling with Julianna Newland

Hello. It’s great to be with you today. I’m Melanie parish. I’m one of the CO hosts of the experimental leader podcast.

Hi. I’m Mel Rutherford. I’m McMaster University’s first transgender department chair, and I’m the co host of the of this podcast. Oh,
and I forgot to say that I’m a coach and an author and content creator leadership consultant. And it’s, it’s it’s really fun to be here, and it’s really fun to be here with you. Mel, what have you been thinking about lately?

Well, I’ve been thinking about as a leader, as a leader of a department. I’ve been thinking about anger, and I’ve been thinking about how to organize and channel the anger in an organization when you’re the leader of the organization. This is something that I’ve never seen written about or talked about in in leadership circles, but I’ve been in a situation where we’ve our department was harmed. In our department, a lot of individuals in the department felt anger, and it was kind of up to me to figure out what to do about that and how to channel it so it and it’s and it’s, of course, a tricky situation, because the anger they felt was towards the upper management, where all the power sits. So, you know, I found that it’s been the project starts with listening and hearing what everybody’s thinking and hearing taking, you know, ideas about what do we think we have to do, and then, and then balancing. If you hear different perspectives, some people you know are much more angry, and some people think we can just let it slide. And so figuring out how you know how much we fight. When do we stop fighting? What do we do with the fight? And and I, you know, one of the reasons I’m talking about it now is because, after four or almost five years, we’ve gotten to a point where, I think we’re we’re getting to a resolution, and we’re going to have the deep conversations we’ve been needing to have.

I think that’s really interesting. And I think often when we think about anger in an organization, it’s usually pointed to toward the leader. I think it’s really interesting that it’s not pointed at you, and still it’s a part of your leadership. Mm, hmm, well, and, and, and what I’ve been thinking about, I’ve been thinking about chasing joy and it it’s not as far from your topic as we might think, because I think, I think at this point in time, there are many people in the world that aren’t feeling a lot of joy, and I think the bad things happen, and we have to figure out how to write ourselves. And in leadership, I do a lot of self care, and I try to make sure I get to some kind of baseline. But joy is a little more elusive, you know, I have been thinking about, you know, how can I find activities that are really joyful for me, and how can I do it? And all of this is spurred on by the fact that I went to Taylor Swift this weekend, sort of at the last minute, a friend flew in from out of town. She was going. I went. It was super joyful, and it changed my perspective. I’ve long, I’ve I’ve long loved these innovative entertainment things that people have vision like Disney. I mean, I think you know, Walt Disney had some issues, but the vision of Disney World and the the vision of creating that is astounding. And I had that same feeling at this concert, the the power of the entertainment and how she interacted with the audience, how she was fully present, how the screens were gigantic, how the dancers and the the set was moving and and I realized that I as a leader, have an obligation to inspire myself. Self, and I don’t think that’s an easy thing to do. And for me, personally, I’m not really inspired by the same thing over and over, which makes it even harder to like there’s not like a rinse and repeat for me. But I had never realized how important inspiring myself was to doing the work that I do in the world, and so I’m pretty excited to sort of be discovering that and thinking about it.

Yeah, that’s interesting. Do we have a guest today?

We do. Let me tell you about her. Her name was Juliana Newland, and she’s an accomplished author and communications expert, and her journey through the realm of words and Public Affairs has shaped her unique perspective, and she’s passionate about talking about how business has changed over the years and how those changes affect women in middle management. So I’m super excited to welcome Juliana Newland to our show.

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Welcome Juliana.

Thank you very much. I’m happy to be here joining you.

Well, welcome Juliana.

Thank you.

Can you? So I’m curious about this idea of how business has changed and how, especially the impacts on women.

Just from my own personal experience, I started in the workforce in business when I in 1980 and retired in 2014 and over that time, I worked most of that time at a fortune 500 company. During that time, I saw a lot of changes with the way women were managed and the way they by others and the way they managed themselves in the business setting. Most notably when I started at this company, there really were no women at on the upper tier or level, shall we say. So there was really no peers to look to, or other women to look to, to kind of show you the way over time has changed. There now are a lot of women in middle management, especially, and women on boards. However, I will point out that there was a study. I’m not sure if it was Harvard or not, but that said that there are fewer women in on boards now than there were 20 years ago here in the United States. So that’s was kind of eye opening thing to see. And the reason I think that women are treated a little bit differently is because we’re different. We’re not part of the male ecosystem, where I’ve found and other women have in my similar to my position, found we call, sort of the good old boys club. And there was a Harvard study that I do remember rose Harvard Business School that showed that women and male managers, when looked, when you look at each of them, the women tend to promote men and women equally, whereas the men Most of the time promote another man. So that’s, I think, frustrated you to women who are looking for opportunities show their skills and shine, but they need those people. They need their support, of their supervisors, other managers, even to open the doors or help them push the door open to in order for them to get their promotion.

So when women are in more leadership roles, what impact do you think that has on the women who are rank and file employees?

I think it sends a very positive signal that there are opportunities for you and others to climb the ladder. One thing to keep in mind about the breaking the glass ceiling is that a lot of women in middle management have the experience of what’s called the sticky floor. They don’t really get an opportunity to move up the ladder because they’re stuck in middle management. And have the opportunities, for instance, to work, to lead teams, work on projects as a leader, so that managers can see the skills that that woman brings to the company.

Mel, I know you’ve done a lot of thinking and reading about the idea of a glass cliff. Could you talk a little bit about that research and the I know there’s really interesting research about who gets promoted into a glass Cliff situation,

So the, you know, the glass ceiling metaphor, kind of preceded this. The glass ceiling idea that that there’s a there’s a limit to how far up a woman or also people of color or people of other gender minorities can move up in an organization. The glass Cliff idea is the idea that a woman or a person of color is more likely to be promoted to a leadership position when the organization is in crisis.

Interesting and then, and then, they’re more likely to fail in their leadership and have shorter tenure in that role as well.

I believe right there, they’re under greater scrutiny. Their performance evaluations are poor, and they spend less time in leadership before they get demoted again.

So I’m chasing joy today. So this is all bad news. What are we suggesting for women, for people of color, like, what are some, are there any positive suggestions, Juliana, for people who are wanting to be promoted?

Yes, I have a few. The first, and I think most obvious, is you have to advocate for yourself. You have to be able to show, hopefully, with numbers or outcomes, be able to show management above you that you have these you’ve accomplished the following things, and you bring soft skills to the position also, which is important in the business setting most of the time. I think it’s becoming more and more recognized as an important management skill. The second thing is, is for women and people of color and others to find a mentor. And for women, it doesn’t have to be a woman. It could be. I’ve had both female and male mentors in my career and but I having a woman mentor who, especially who’s at a higher position, and the company can help show you the way it can help find opportunities for you to maybe lead a team, take a lateral move, so you can participate as a leader of A project, or that kind of thing. And the other is to look, look for those opportunities with to work with inter departmentally, and don’t feel you have to stick within your own little cubby hole. Look across the board and see those projects that you think you could bring some of your talent to and enrich the project, or the department, or whatever, working across department lines.

Can you make a suggestion about like, what would you say to somebody that you wanted to be your mentor? What would be the really practical path.

I think honesty is the best policy, as they say. I think that once you identify that person, you need to make sure that you understand, that you understand how valuable their time is, and that how much you appreciate their being a mentor for you, and set ground rules at the beginning, how often you’re going to meet and how open this relationship will be, how candid will meet or be, and that sort of thing. So I would look for what I did was I looked for women in in my own department or component, and there weren’t many when I started out, but then everyone came in to even into manufacturing positions, which is was exclusively a male domain for a long Time. And I’ll just ask the person, point blank, I really like what I see. You have a director position, and I’m looking for someone to mentor me. Would you be willing to do that?

And how many levels up do you think, like do you recommend?

I would say one or two to start off with, and also look at your own level. I was a manager. You could look for other managers in your department or in another component, but I wouldn’t go too much higher than that for the first mentor.

Yeah, I believe you have a book out. Can you tell us about that?

It’s actually, it’s a short and witty book, kind of my alter ego wrote it. It’s called all up in your business, managing your business, crap. So. Excuse me. So anyway, that’s the title of the book, and is available@amazon.com it’s just it has a lot of different pieces to it regarding things, issues, problems, programs at work and how to deal with them. It’s written rather tongue in cheek, but I also give good advice at the end of each little chapter, advice for the reader on how to deal with things like the performance review or asking for a pay raise. How do you approach that? How do you what kind of information do you need? Also, what about the office fleeing? Is that good or bad? Or should you stay away from it or give it a whirl?

What you say, I want to know.

What I said is no, no, no, no.

And who do you think would would benefit from reading your book?

People. I think men and women who are starting out with their careers, I think would enjoy it. I think I’m a baby boomer, and I, I had several baby boomer, baby boomer friends of mine read it, and they said it was like walking through their past work experience and things they could really relate to, which was interesting, but I think mostly first, I’d say Millennials or even Generation X, that maybe starting a new job or having a promotion and a position, and want some good examples of problems they might encounter in the workplace and how to deal with them.

And where can people find you, Julianna?

They can find me on Facebook and on LinkedIn. I post on I need to post more frequently, but I do post on Facebook and LinkedIn.

Where can they find your book?

At amazon.com

Perfect. And that’s Julianna Newland, all up in your business, managing your business, crap. It’s been a pleasure to have you on today, Juliana, thank you for being our guest.

Thank you for having me. I had a good time talking with you.

Thank you, Julianna.

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Well, that was interesting. I think it’s really interesting to think about the middle leader. And I was going to sort of ask you, how you think about that middle management layer in your organization, in some ways you are, but in some ways you’re not, like because you’re, you know, it’s interesting.

Yeah, one of the things that really, that I really noticed Juliana mentioning, was thinking, when you think about trying to move up, try to think broadly, like there’s not just one path up. Think about if there’s another department that that that gives you a path, a path up, or another project you want to switch to, that’ll that’ll be a raise or, you know, a promotion, but not there’s not just one way to get straight up.

Yeah, I think that’s really true and and I know I’ve heard in the past from other another podcast guest. I’m trying to remember her name, but she used to say, she said, if you want to be seen as a thought leader, say something like, Oh, I’m doing thought leadership on that. Like, like, people need to be told, like, with a really straight line that you’re in leading. Oh, I really, like, you know, I’m thinking about this in my leadership, kind of like we do, right?

Yeah. Juliana also mentioned, make sure your boss knows how great a job you’re doing.

Yeah, and make sure you don’t go into your performance eval. You know, we’re uncertain in our new leadership roles, and I think that women are more likely to go into a performance eval and and amplify what they aren’t good at, as opposed to amplifying what they are good at. And I think those kinds of things you know, get preparation, hire a coach to go through your work record and hat and come into your performance eval with a list of everything you did. Well, if they can’t find the things you did badly, don’t tell them. Um. Yeah, I mean, find a growing edge, but you don’t need to amplify your shortcomings with, you know, up the ladder. Yeah, I think, I think it’s really interesting to think about that middle layer. And how do you, how do you get attention, how do you ask for help? How do you look like, you know, I think, I think the other thing that I notice is, and it’s another reason to hire a coach. And I this is not a pitch. I mean, it’s always a pitch, but not, not that big of a pitch. If you hire a coach, you don’t have to go to your boss with all of your challenges, right? If you have a coach to work through your problems with you may have to go for input, but you will have, you’ll go in really well prepared. If you don’t have a coach, then your boss becomes your de facto coach. That’s not good for you. It makes you. It makes you. It diminishes you,
right? You show up with questions and problems.

Yeah, it diminishes your possibility and and and probably costs you 1000s and 1000s and raises over a career. Um, well, it’s been fun. Chatting with you. It’s been fun. Um, yeah, anything else you have to say?

No, okay, go experiment.

Go experiment.

 

Important Links: 

LinkedIn – Julianna Newland

Julianna Newland

Julianna M. Newland is an accomplished author and communication expert whose journey through the realm of words and public affairs has shaped her unique perspective. Raised in the vibrant city of
Indianapolis, Indiana, Julianna's earlier educational foundation was laid under the guidance of nuns. Her intellectual curiosity led her to the University of Indianapolis, where she pursued a dual major in English and political science. This academic fusion served as the launchpad for a remarkable career that has spanned over three decades.

Julianna’s professional path took her through various influential roles, including a substantial tenure with a Fortune 500 company, service within state government, contributions to two nonprofit organizations, and active participation in a prominent trade association. Throughout her diverse career, Julianna’s unique blend of writing acumen and expertise in public affairs, government relations, lobbying, and fundraising consistently set her apart.

Her love for the written word was ignited during her university years
when she assumed the role of editor-in-chief of the university newspaper. This early passion evolved into a lifelong dedication to the craft of writing, which she seamlessly integrated into her professional endeavors. To further refine her writing skills and add depth to her storytelling, Julianna married award-winning journalist James G. Newland Jr., whose invaluable insights and newspaper stories have enriched her understanding of the intricate world of politics.
Julianna, along with her husband James, and their adult son, Patrick, live in Indianapolis.

 

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