Healthcare is not only in need of skilled practitioners but responsible leaders as well. With the right healthcare leadership in place, treatments and procedures can be rolled out quickly and safely. Delving this topic with Melanie Parish is Dan Pelino of Everyone Matters, Inc., discussing the right attitude and mindset every leader in this industry must possess to cause real change and impact. He also talks about how women leaders can think and act differently than men, the right approach to race and gender diversity in healthcare, and how he dealt with the scars of his career. Melanie and Dan also compare the healthcare systems of Canada and the US, dissecting their advantages and challenges. 

—

Listen to the podcast here

Dan Pelino On The Right Ingredients That Make Up Healthcare Leadership 

This is for the first section, what we call the rant or the monologue. I’ve been thinking about my leadership and how difficult it is for my brain to carry on in projects that don’t yield results fairly quickly. I’ve been thinking about the difference between grandiose, quick implementation, and quick wins, and then slow, steady, continuous improvement. I notice my preference for the quick, easy, and things that show their value right away, but I’m noticing the incredible amount of value the longer projects have as collateral in my business and my organization. 

I’m working for myself to continue to think about the ways and the cadence of how I implement continuous improvement in my organization. How do we think about putting something up going live quickly, the shipping that sometimes Seth Godin talks about? How do we ship? How do we continually improve so we get the benefit of that steadiness over time? It’s fun to think about my leadership and I challenge you to do the same. 

—

Dan Pelino is the Founder of Everyone Matters, a social impact enterprise dedicated to ensuring that everyone has equal access to citizen-based services, healthcare, and education. He is a regular contributor to the discussion on healthcare, citizen-based services on CNN, Bloomberg, the BBC, and other media outlets. He worked for IBM for 36 years, leading its global healthcare and life sciences business for ten years. He wrote Trusted Healers. The book takes the reader on a journey on the future of healthcare and how it’s all in our grasp. I’m excited to have Dan on my show. 

—

Dan, I am super excited to have you on my show and I can’t wait to talk to you about healthcare. 

Thanks. I’m glad to be here and I’m super excited to talk to you, too. 

I often start when I have a guest to talk about how they’re experimenting or what they’re working on in their own lives. What are you up to? 

I retired from IBM after 36 years. Anne and I created a company called Everyone Matters, Inc., which got a great story why we call it that. I wrote a book called Trusted Healers, which came out as number one in health policy when it first came out. We follow the course of Dr. Paul Grundy and all of the great things that he did as a leader in primary care around the world. We interviewed some 40 other leaders from healthcare. We focused on societal change and leadership. It’s all about trying to make a difference in areas of citizen-based services, which are healthcare, government, and education. 

Why did you pick healthcare to dive into after you retired? 

I was fortunate at IBM to run the healthcare business. I have responsibility for the type of care that we bought for over 400,000 people or so and more with their dependents, etc. I also have the lobbying responsibilities. When you put those three together, when I retired, people said, “You have to write a book.” What I found myself to be and you may appreciate this is I didn’t have a dog in the fight. I didn’t have a hospital system that I was the CEO of. I didn’t have a health insurance company that I ran. I wasn’t a pharma executive.  

As opposed to being a community owner and owner of one of those communities’ responsibilities, I’m a community builder. I got a chance to see how they all work together and tried to help them be more effective and efficient in what they’re trying to do. From that global lens and IBM likes to go after global challenges and grand challenges, I was asked to focus on changing healthcare and to try and have it more about the continuum of care. The idea of trusted healers, bringing information, artificial intelligence, etc., into the mix to try and work towards better outcomes and better accessibility for all. 

If you were to have a vision of the world that you’d like it to be, can you articulate that a little bit? 

In the world of healthcare or are bigger, bolder than that? I’m happy to go wherever you want to go. 

Let’s constrain ourselves to healthcare for this conversation. 

First of all, with healthcare, accessibility is important for all. The second is I wrote the book, hopeful that people would see how important primary care is, the front door of care. The idea about a primary care doc, RNs, PAs, etc. that can help you navigate the healthcare system and have that kind of relationship. On top of that, I hearken to a thought and I want to share this with you about healthcare. I want to use the example of a race car, whether it’s a Formula 1 or NASCAR. We’re all in the race of our life. What we want in healthcare is we want a pit crew made up of doctors, RNs, PAs, and specialists that are wearing the same colors as our car. 

That radio was in to say, “It’s time to come in for a checkup. Your check engine light is on. Your tires need to be changed,” whatever it might be. You would come into that pitstop and they get you back onto that road of your life so that you could have that victory that you want to have. The idea, which was once like a cowboy or cowgirl, coming in to see you, knocking on the door, the obligatory clipboard, they’d spend five minutes with you. You’d walk out with a prescription and you wouldn’t see them again for an extended period of time.  

We’re moving and transitioning into the system of care where you have a trusted healer that can help you. This is what Dr. Paul Grundy takes us through and this is the creation of the medical home, which is where your information is contained, have that trusted relationship, have this pit crew, if you will, of people that care for you. I hope for everyone that they have a trusted healer relationship of someone that helps them navigate their healthcare and then pass that on to generations that come behind them. 

I love that we’re having this conversation because I’m an American living in Canada, so I am aware of the differences between the two countries. Every time I come to the US, my friends want to talk about healthcare usually because they’re suffering in some way. I noticed that Americans talk about healthcare. Whereas in Canada, I never have a conversation about healthcare with my friends because they have that pit crew.  

My doctor tells me all the time. Our doctors get paid here. They’re moving to a model where they get paid for having you in their stable, so they’re not getting paid for visits. They are calling you in to say, “You need these tests. We’re worried about this.” I feel like it is such a powerful model. Canada has its own challenges. There’s no doubt about it. What do you think? I’m assuming you know about the Canadian system as well. 

Trusted Healers: Dr. Paul Grundy and the Global Healthcare Crusade

I know it well. I sit on some boards of cleaning companies serving the healthcare area. Let me give you three things off of what you said to me that are important in this dialogue. The first is what your system is moving towards is value-based care. Instead of paying for an episode of care, they’re paying to keep you well and that’s a value-based care system. That’s a good thing and more will continue to do that. I want to compliment you for recognizing that and knowing that you were in a value-based care environment.  

The second thing I want to share with you is that the US did take the Canadian model and then implemented that, and that is what we know as Medicare and Medicaid in the US. President Lyndon Baines Johnson brought that over in 1964 to ‘65 timeframe, and then it was brought over with the idea that we would continue to change that and evolve it. For instance, with Medicare, the idea was to lower the age so that it wouldn’t be at 65, but over time, it would go down and pick up more people. Same thing on the Medicaid side on the poverty level. The poverty level has risen, which then picks up more disadvantaged people so that they can get the right care. The US took the Canadian model and put that as one of its offerings into the country. 

That’s fascinating because that’s what it feels like to me. As soon as my parents got into that Medicare system, it felt exactly the same as Canada. Only in that way, I see the US system being faster, more urgent. We always joke that they would make an emergency show about the medicine in Canada and everyone would just sit around and drink coffee. Whereas in the US, my mom ended up in the hospital and within five minutes, she’d had a nurse and she’d had tests. Within two hours, she’d had an hour-long MRI and they had offered her a helicopter to go to a better hospital. Whereas in Canada, you’re waiting so long to be seen in the first place. Although I know some things have changed during COVID because COVID has made them deal with their urgency problem in a different way. I hear different stories. It’s super interesting. 

Let me give you the third aspect of this that makes it so interesting, especially from a US standpoint. This is what causes people some level of frustration and also, it causes our healthcare to be so expensive. In the US, people like choice so they can have an insurance plan and there are many different types of insurance plans that fit within that jigsaw puzzle. You have what we already talked about with Medicare and Medicaid. We have the VA system, which is that hospitals are owned by the government, and then delivery, which is owned by the government.  

You have the fourth, which is you go alone. You decide not to have any insurance at all and you pay for it yourself. Every healthcare system, every provider of care has to accommodate all four of those types of payment reimbursements in the way that people approach their healthcare. It costs approximately a 37% increase in administrative costs to be able to handle choice. No one wants to go away from choice because we get in this argument, should we have Medicare for all? Is healthcare a right versus a privilege?  

In the book Trusted Healers, I write about this and when people read it, they go, “I got to have a BA.” I see now why we get into these debates. What you need is someone to help take what looks complex, make it simple, and be able to help you navigate. That’s why you need a trusted healer, someone that can help you think about the choices that you want to make, and then help you not only from when you’re sick but also wealthier.  

Of course, in the US, we only spend 5% to 7% of the first dollar on welfare, where countries that have longer life expectancy spend anywhere from 14% to 20% of the first dollar on welfare. There you have it, this complex thought about healthcare has complexity from how it gets paid, reimbursement, what’s my entry point, and not enough focus on the front end of care of keeping people well in a value-based care system. On top of that, the people that are in the healthcare system today don’t understand healthcare literacy. They don’t know what decisions they should make.  

The reason is because the generation that came before us didn’t spend a lot of time on healthcare literacy. We weren’t taught how to eat right. We weren’t taught that you should go to the dentist all the time. Those things only came up when they needed to come up and that may have been going to school when you needed to have your shots. I talked about in the book, too, that one of the greatest gifts that we can give society today is in fact healthcare literacy to the generations that will come behind this. 

I want to shift a little bit. I know that you also think about leading healthcare. This is a leadership show. Not that I don’t love talking about everything on here. What are the things people should be thinking about as they’re leading in healthcare? 

I’m impressed with what you do in the coaching, the experimental leader, etc. I’m honored to be with you talking about leadership because that is a passion of mine. I’ve been teaching leadership while I was working for IBM, PhD, MBA level for many years. I have some experience in my undergraduate work. It was in business and journalism, but my graduate work was in organizational communication, behavioral science, and postgraduate work. I’m fairly well-schooled in this conversation about leadership. What we found out when we went out and did the interviews of these people is that they all did the same thing. All these great leaders did the same thing.  

People would say, “What did they do?” They started the conversation with a question and not an answer. All these great leaders were asking a question. Some may have been rhetorical and some may have been direct, but they all started with a question. Isn’t that an interesting thought? You and I know that you can’t call yourself a leader. Other people call you a leader. Those that call themselves a leader usually start the conversation with the answer and not a question. The real leader starts to ask those kinds of questions about what to do and what we should do.  

The reason is because they’ve created a level of aspiration of what they should do and that aspiration inspires their teams and people to follow them and pursue those goals, those levels of aspiration. On top of this, they have the discipline for course correction and speed. The most important thing that I can share with your readers that want to be great leaders is number one, start by asking a question. Number two, have a process that creates an aspiration. What is it that creates that, “We’re going to go do this?” How does it inspire other people?  

You must have the discipline for course correction and speed. How do you know you’re going fast enough? How do you know you’re going in the right direction? The last thing on top of that, leadership matters. Your rhetoric, how you approach people, and how you create the culture matters. If you can master those three things, then your readers will be great leaders and people will call them leaders. Starting by asking questions, creating this aspiration and inspiration discipline, and then being able to understand the impact that you have from a cultural standpoint and trying to make a difference. 

The only thing I would add is to make sure you collect the data because I’m all about the experiments. Try things and say things. I love the idea of starting with a question, but the only thing I would add is that data collection piece because often, we try things and then we forget to look to see if they worked. 

Given your background, I bet if you and I had a chance to spend an afternoon together, we would probably come up with a couple of other things that you would say, “Let’s try this. Let’s do this.” It’d be so much fun. 

You’re in the heart of the healthcare conversation and thought leadership. I’m curious, what questions should people be asking about race and gender diversity across the board in healthcare? 

That’s important because certain populations aren’t sure they want to get the COVID shot. The reason is because in many of the clinical trials, they don’t feel as represented as they’d like to be. If they’re not as represented and you ask them to take a shot that they’re not familiar with, the chances are they’re going to say, “I’ll wait.” As a matter of fact, in the US, they surveyed NBA basketball players and most of them said they weren’t going to get the shot. Most NBA basketball players are African-American black. Why are they saying that? It’s not because they don’t want to be well, but they’d like to see more people like them that are in the clinical trials. With that, they would feel more comfortable.  

Healthcare Leadership: People in the healthcare system today don’t understand healthcare literacy. They don’t know what decisions they should make.

In that world of diversity that you and I are talking about here, it’s important that great leaders have the right representation in everything from clinical trials to leadership that they have, to thinking about the cultural aspect of reaching people. Of course, there are all the aspects of accessibility. Not everybody has a car. Not everybody has the ability to get to our hospital system. Not everybody has a person that can step in and help them do that. Society has to pay attention to that and it’s important that we do. 

To that diversity, the representation, we can’t solve it once we’ve created the vaccine. We have to solve it so much earlier in the process, having all the voices at the table. I talked to a lot of women leaders. I rarely ask men how women’s leadership is different. I’d love to know your thoughts on it because you’ve thought about these things. What do you think women need to think about that’s different than what men need to think about as leaders? 

First of all, having my responsibilities at IBM running global businesses, I’ve had amazing women leaders that I’ve worked for and have been part of the organizations that I built. I do feel comfortable talking to you about this. Number one for women that are leaders is to be authentic to who they are. Don’t try and be the man in the room. Don’t try and be somebody that’s going out, drinking bourbon, and smoking cigars if that’s not who you are. Be who you are. Be true to yourself. That’s the most important part of women leaders because women are well-schooled. They know ways to approach problems. They are more compassionate than men are.  

As a matter of fact, you see that women organizations have higher satisfaction than men-run organizations and there’s a lot of reasons for that. I want to encourage women leaders to be authentic to who they are and be able to bring their best forward. Don’t try and be somebody you’re not. Unfortunately, we’ve seen that happen and when that happens, you lose all credibility. That’s not what you want to have happened. Don’t try and be somebody else. This is your movie as a leader. You’re the director and you’re starring in it. Be comfortable in who you are and be authentic. That’s the one word that I would offer. Women leaders, be authentic. 

I want to switch gears a little bit. I sometimes ask people what they know about imposter syndrome. I’m not asking you to tell me your deepest, darkest secrets, but it’s a question that comes up and people want some ideas or thoughts from people who’ve been through it or seen people go through it and have come out the other side. Can you share some thoughts on imposter syndrome? 

Let me offer you some thoughts on getting through things and coming out on the other side. First of all, you’re never as good as you think you are. You’re never as bad as they tell you are. As a leader, you have a high value of yourself. You’ve achieved much. You have to be able to understand that you’re still learning and you’re still going through things and you’re still growing. Don’t ever take yourself too seriously through this. It’s good to learn, grow, and fail. The one-minute value and the things that you’ve written about in the whole idea about experimental leadership. 

As a leader and having run large organizations and global businesses and taught this idea about leadership, people will try to take you down. They will say things about you. You’re usually the fighter at the dinner conversation if you’re a leader. People are saying, “You’re not going to believe what this person did today.” They may write about you. There may be things that are said about you that you don’t like, but you have to remember, you’re not as bad as they tell you are. It’s a roller coaster ride that you have to hang on to. You’re never as good as you think you are. You’re never as bad as they tell you are. If you keep that in mind, you can get to the other side a little faster and with fewer scars. 

There are scars in leadership, those moments that wound your soul, and then you dust yourself off and you keep going and you remember those. I have scars from my leadership. I’m sure you have scars. 

Healthcare Leadership: Women leaders must be authentic to who they are. Don’t try to be the man in the room.

We all have more scars than stars. By the way, when I interview people, I’d like them to tell me about their scars. What did you learn from that along the way? No matter what you do in life, you’re going to end up having more scars than stars. I’ll tell you this. I coached soccer for 26 years amongst my time working. I coached it at the international level. We won some and we lost some like anything else, but I got to taste some of it. I sat on the ground back to the fence with many players one-on-one where I would say this to them, “It’s better to have cried and tried than never to have cried and never to have tried.” 

I like your little sayings. You have these little things that run in your head. They’re powerful because sometimes, when I get coaching clients, they have voices that run in their head that aren’t positive. It’s a great way to replace those with something that puts you on the path you want to be on. 

I’m not a certified coach like you, and I don’t have quite the accolades, PRISM Award, and other things. You’re a professional at this. As a leader, you’re a coach. You’re trying to bring out the best in your people. I would have conversations with people I call it Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. Let’s talk about what you want to do and let me help you get there. A role of a leader is to try and bring out those great ideas and great moments and help change people’s lives. If you’re that person, they will remember you forever for good reasons. 

It’s been interesting to chat with you, Dan. Where can people find you? 

They can find me on our website, Everyone Matters, Inc. You can do that or you can just search on my name, Dan Pelino and you’ll see the different podcasts and TV shows. You can follow me that way if you’d like. I’d like to conclude with one last story if you don’t mind. 

Absolutely. 

People ask me many times, “Dan, why does everyone matter? How did you come up with that name?” When I was doing my work at IBM and I would speak to many groups, large and small, I would ask a rhetorical question at the end of my speeches. Why do we do what we do? You’ll recognize this look, which is I would get the stare of the Wisconsin dairy cow. “What is he saying?” People would say, “That’s what you want us to answer? Are we supposed to think about this ourselves? What is this?” 

Of course, by now, you’ve figured out what the answer is. Why do we do what we do? Because everyone matters. That’s why I created the company Everyone Matters. When you think about trying to create a better society in areas like healthcare and education and government-based services, it’s important for all of us that are in this area and in this area of leadership to realize and have that true north. What is that aspiration you have? For me, for our company, and what I’ve tried to do is because everyone matters. 

Thank you for being here. What a pleasure. It’s been a joy to spend some time. 

Healthcare Leadership: Women organizations have higher satisfaction than men-run organizations.

Thanks for reading my book, Trusted Healers. I appreciate that. You’re wonderful. I appreciate being on your podcast. Your readers are lucky to have you and bring in stories like this. I want to thank you for allowing me to be part of what you do. 

—

I’ve enjoyed my conversation with Dan Pelino about healthcare and healthcare leadership. What he demonstrates is a powerful force for how information and sharing that information creates good leadership. I love that he talked about women in leadership and he talked about race in healthcare. He is able to use the knowledge and the power of his position and learning to have an eye toward accessibility for all. I was a little star-struck in my conversation with Dan. He’s gracious and warm while having the data to back up what he’s saying. This is a powerful image for us all as we contemplate our own leadership. Go experiment. 

Important Links: 

• Everyone Matters 
• Trusted Healers 
• Dan Pelino – LinkedIn  

About Dan Pelino

Dan is the founder of Everyone Matters, a social impact enterprise dedicated to ensuring that everyone has equal access to citizen-based services, healthcare, and education.

He is a regular contributor to the discussion on healthcare, citizen-based services on CNN, Bloomberg, the BBC and other media outlets. He worked for IBM for 36 years leading its global Healthcare and Life Sciences Business for 10 years.

Most recently he wrote ‘Trusted Healers’. The book takes the reader on a journey on the future of healthcare, and how it’s all in our grasp.

Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share!

• Here’s How »

Join The Experimental Leader community today:

• melanieparish.com
• YouTube