Business coaching is about being 100% present to your client. For our International Coaches Week special episode, our guest is Garry Schleifer, a business coach and the publisher of Choice, the magazine of professional coaching. In this episode, Garry talks about his experiences as a business coach. To Garry, values are very important in coaching; you need to hire and work with people who share your values. Never resting on your laurels as a coach is also essential. After all, mastery is not a destination but a journey. Do you want to learn more from Garry’s experiences to become an amazing coach? Then this episode is for you!

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Listen to the podcast here

International Coaches Week Special: Mastering Business Coaching With Garry Schleifer

My guest is Garry Schleifer. He’s a seasoned businessman bringing many years of experience to his coaching. His walk the top credentials dropped from experience as a visionary behind several multimillion-dollar corporations. Applying an approach of ruthless compassion when helping his business owner clients he challenges clients with transformative coaching, rigorous goals, innate sensitivity, good humor, and non-judgment. He earned coach credentials at the Coaches Training Institute and his certified Mentor Coach Certificate from inviteCHANGE. 

He’s a PCC in the International Coach Federation and he’s the Owner and Publisher of Choice, the magazine of professional coaching. He’s the past President of the Toronto ICF Chapter, Vice President of the ICF Global Board and he served on several community–based boards. His project Freedom Bootcamp for Entrepreneurs, creating more free time so you can have more me time is a labor of love combining his years of training and experience to bring freedom back to business owners. He lives with his husband, Patrick in Toronto, Canada. 

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Garry, it is exciting for you to be on my show. 

I am thrilled to be here. It’s been a long time since we haven’t talked. 

We have known each other for so long. I have known you since the International Coach Federation Conference in St. Louis in 2005. 

That would be right, if not longer, and we probably have known of each other even before that. 

It’s been a long time and I am thrilled. I feel you have made so many contributions to the coaching community. I’m excited to dive into your leadership and I’d love to know what you’re up to now in your world. 

Thank you so much for asking. I’m thrilled to be here. What I’m up to is, finally after more than twenty years of being a coach, I’m going to prepare myself to sit for the MCC, which is the Master Certified Coach with the International Coaching Federation, the name has changed. That’s both nervous and exciting because it’s been a while since I’ve had someone supervise my coaching and yet I have had some people observe in those demo sessions that you do. 

I’m in a program with Marcia Reynolds Breakthrough Coaching. She did a book. Marcia is on our editorial board and wrote the book Coach the Person, Not the Problem. She’s doing this course related to that. It’s like us coaches do are always bettering ourselves, not bettering ourselves, that’s not the way to say it. I’d say we’re always on the leading edge of the opportunity to make a difference as much as we can and as impactful as we can. 

I would think of you as one of the pillars of the coaching community. I am super curious about why you decided that the Master Certified Coach credential is important to you now? 

I asked myself that because credentials don’t mean anything to me. It’s more about the process and the commitment. I committed to being a coach and right at the beginning, I was like, “I signed up in the whole course credentialing program, the whole bit, I knew I was going to get credential I made up my mind that’s what I was going to do for my own personal sake.” This next evolution, I rapidly went to the next level, which is Professional Certified Coach or PCC and now it’s about heading into an age in my life, a segment of my life where all of my administrative duties are being handled by an online business manager. I have the space to get back into coaching. 

What you don’t know in between 2005 and now, we’ve seen and talked, but we haven’t talked. Back then, I was coaching a lot of clients and I started Choice Magazine. It took a lot of my time and continues to take a lot of my time. Now I’m like, “I still want Choice to run, but I don’t necessarily need to do the hands on day-to-day. I want to be up. I want to be working on the business, not in the business. The only thing I want to be working in the business is coaching.” 

I want to be the best coach that I can be and that always going through continuous improvement. Never resting on your laurels as a coach. Are there new innovations? Are there ways we’re not learning? Since we started coaching, there’s been mentoring and supervision has been added to our credentialing process. Even though coaching, in its core, in essence, is still the same and it’s for the same reasons and the same results, the way we handle ourselves and the things that we do have changed quite a bit. I got a buzz out of saying, “I want to be an MCC and be along with all the other great folks out there cheering us on.” 

I feel all the credentials or awards or things that have happened in my life, some of them happened to me, I got lucky or whatever. I felt the MCC was something I strived for. I had to work for it. I had to fight for it. I had to dig in, go deep and track all those hours. It’s not my natural state to track all those coaching hours. For anybody reading, it’s about 2,500 coaching hours to become a Master Certified Coach. You can use some group coaching, but mostly, it’s one-on-one conversations and there’s a real mastery to those conversations. I have to say that I’ve continued to be proud of it. I’m excited that you will join the MCC world because you belong at that level. It’s quite interesting that you’ve decided to do that. 

I have to say, one of the most impactful statements was ever made by Laurie Schneider, who was in the Toronto area. He was on a panel and he said something that resonates with me to this day. Remember, this is back, probably around 2005 to 2007 when I was the President of the Toronto ICF Chapter. He said, “Mastery is not a destination. It’s a journey.” Even though you’ve gotten your MCC, you’ve continued to improve yourself. You take other courses and you watch other things. For me, MCC is not the end of my journey. Mastery is the continual coaching, being observed and challenging yourself, but it does bring up a good question. What’s next after MCC? 

I went and got a Jonah Certification in the Theory of Constraints and Constraints Management. I did Seth Godin’s altMBA. There are all these ways that we can continue to spice up our coaching lives as we are lifelong learners. That’s important. One of the conversations that don’t often happen in coaching is the longevity of clients, how long clients stay with someone, and one of the ways that we do that is to change who we are. We have a trajectory of being a more skilled, more educated person two years from now we can continue to meet our clients where they are as they grow and evolve. 

Mel, I don’t think we’re any different than anybody else. One of the great things about coaching is there’s such variety. There’s variety in the people we coach, in the ways and the methodology we can use like group coaching, team coaching, you mentioned Seth Godin methodology and all those things you can apply. Our lives can never have to be boring. When you think about it, every time you get ready, I get nervous. I’ll be honest, even after more than twenty years, I get nervous before every coaching call. It’s mostly about me worried about the weirdest thing. I’ve been coaching for more than 2,000 hours, and I still have that little bit of anxiety. 

Let’s call it anxiety about, “How’s this one going to go?” As soon as I let that go and be present with the client and invite whatever’s going on for them. I like saying, “You’re opening the door to chaos.” It’s like, “What are they going to bring today?” I do this quick shift. Maybe that’s part of it, too, about the love of coaching. It’s that little bit of excitement about, what’s going on for this client today? We never have to worry about us taking on anything afterward. It’s like a dinner party, we get invited in, the host gets to show all their stuff, there might be a bit of drama, games or whatever and you get to go home and they have to clean up, which is their fieldwork or homework. 

Business Coaching: To truly be an amazing coach, you have to be 100% present to your client.

I had a client years ago, over a decade ago and I was coaching a bunch of people in their organization and one of them had a disagreement with one of them and they threatened to subpoena me for a lawsuit they were having with them. We offer confidentiality and coaching but we’re not protected. That was the last time I kept notes that were my responsibility because I always wanted to maintain that confidentiality for my clients. I didn’t want to be the holder of information because I show up and I’m there for what’s present. That’s so important that we are there. We show up. 

I had a client who reached out to me and said, “I thought it was in your calendar, but I don’t see it.” I said, “Let’s hop on a call.” We hopped on and decided to go ahead and do a coaching session. I learned something about myself and that is that I look at my schedule when I get up in the morning and I think about who’s there and I think for three seconds, what are we going to talk about and where were they the last time we talked. It took me five minutes or so as I got into this call and I was like, “Didn’t you send me a text about this? Shouldn’t we talk about that?” He was like, “That’s what we need to talk about.” I realized I hadn’t had that moment and I never knew that I did that moment until I hadn’t done it and I realized that it was missing. 

You brought up a good point because you’re an MCC and there are other MCCs I work with. I’m in Marcia Reynolds’ program now. The thing about notes, I used to write notes. My coach, one of my first coaches used to write notes and send them to me. To your point, I never thought of it that way. As far as being subpoenaed and having notes and that thing, but I truly write a few cryptic words that I want to remember as I’m coaching the client in case the opportunity comes up. It allows me to be present. Otherwise, I’m hanging on to that word or that question that I want to ask the client. I’m not being present to what they’re saying now. If I write it down, that’s fine. It may or may not come up, but I’ve got it there. Besides my few notes that I write could as well be a recipe for fudge pudding or something. It’s like flour and wheat. “Go ahead, subpoena me.” 

I’m assuming at this point, you might coach on Zoom or something. When did you start that? 

It’s one of those things where it’s like, “When did I?” Back in the day, everybody was like, “It has to be face to face.” I’m like, “I’m Global Garry.” It’s my tag and handle. Skype me if you want me. I always did it by phone. Any new-ish technology was a piece of cake for me. I was Skyping before a lot of my friends and fellow colleagues were Skyping. I was Zooming because I do a lot of my training. Zoom has only been around for what? 

I don’t know. 

Here we go again. The internet’s been only around for many years. Zoom has probably been around for a few years. 

I don’t know. It’s so interesting. I started offering Zoom calls for my clients a few years ago. I didn’t do Zoom before. 

I transitioned. I want to see people. We’re talking now, but what your readers may or may not know is we’re watching each other. We’re having this conversation seeing each other. It’s not essential, but it’s certainly important because you get to see how things land with your clients. That being said, when I was doing phone coaching, there was one time a client, it was the strangest thing, I said to the client, “I have a strange feeling you’re in a dark place, physically, not mentally.” 

He goes, “Yeah. How’d you do that? I’m in my kitchen with the lights out and the doors are closed.” He was under the table in the dark. How did I know that? It’s interesting. We get clues from being on video but it can be phone too. I had one of my Zoom clients and his camera didn’t work. He’s like, “We’re going to go old school. We’re going to go on the phone.” I was like, “The phone. I remember that.” I enjoyed it to be honest. 

When I did Seth Cohen’s altMBA, I can’t believe I’m pitching Seth twice. 

Twice in one call. 

Twice in one podcast. I found that when I was in these groups if somebody didn’t turn on their camera, I missed it. I felt there was a loss there. I realized that my clients might want that connection too. I still have some clients who only do phone. They don’t want Zoom. They don’t want to have to get out of their pajamas or whatever. I feel like with Zoom, though, I had clients that I’d coached for years that I’d never met in person. I’d meet them in person and it would almost feel like a separate relationship. I feel I don’t have that with Zoom. The visual grounds, both the in-person and the virtual relationship are different. 

It’s a little secret. It helps me to be present. On the phone, when something pops up, a text pops up, or whatever, I need to put the phone down when I’m working with a coaching client, but it doesn’t happen often enough. I make a goal of keeping my hands almost visible to my viewer so I know and they know subconsciously that I’m not doing emails, texts, and updating a spreadsheet. Because we’re doing so many things these days, and we’re going so fast, and we do most of them ourselves, it’s inevitable we get distracted by our own stuff. To truly be an amazing coach, you have to be 100% present to that client. Notice when you disengage, your biases and your emotions show up and you get hooked in what they said. You get in the, “That happened to me last week.” Let it go over and over again. That’s what I love about coaching. Being a professional, you have to force yourself to be present. 

It’s interesting that presence and that pulling back even if you’re looking at somebody’s eyes on Zoom, you still are managing your presence. I don’t think that people who aren’t coaches understand the complete availability of what it’s like to be fully open and present to someone in that moment. I don’t think it’s something that most people experience. Their attention split and that gives some layer of protection. If you are truly open, I know that if a client gets annoyed with me in coaching and it’s happened. I’ve had clients yell at me. 

It means you’re doing a great job. 

I’m pushing them hard. They also swear at me, but I don’t think they know how open I am when that happens. Zoom helps them moderate their reaction and to see their impact also. 

The other thing, too, about not being on Zoom is to be on Zoom is to be vulnerable. It’s being a bit more vulnerable. It’s not as much about whether in your pajamas or not but that might play to it too. There’s a vulnerability being physically seen. I fully appreciate that so I would never object if a client said, “I’m not comfortable doing this. I’d like to do it on the phone or whatever.” I’d be like, “That’s fine.” As long as I coach, that’s all I want to do. I want to coach.  

Have you noticed any differences for yourself around the emotional labor of coaching during COVID? 

I have not. I have one new client now. Of the three clients that I’m working with on a regular basis. One of them is in Singapore. He’s in a different world. They’re not impacted. They dealt with COVID right away. The other one is going gangbusters. They all went virtual. They’re getting rid of their office. They’re local to us and he’s busier than ever. He’s being promoted and getting raises. They’re busy on a global scale. It’s a global organization. He’s in the executive suite. The newest person I have has a bit of isolation. He’s the only one I’m noticing some COVID impact, but I also realize he’s between gigs if you will, an opportunity for a career change. It happened to happen before COVID that he finished one gig and didn’t have another one. 

I’m aware of that. I published Choice Magazine, and I’m on a mission to get everybody into a new subscription system. I call about 200 coaches a month, 200 subscribers. I have to get them over to this new system. When I do talk to some of them, they’re busier than ever. I’d say 90% of coaches are busier than they’ve ever been. They’re losing clients because they’ve lost jobs or companies have been affected but I wouldn’t say I’ve had any heard of anything emotional about it. I’ve heard more success stories than anything. Choice Magazines is doing great. We’re busy. We’re in our twentieth year in 2022. We’re making plans to have a party, so watch out for that news. It’s in 2022, so I hope at least by then we’ve had our shots and/or maybe we still have to wear a mask. I don’t know. 

There’s hope in 2022. I want to ask you about Choice. You made this decision a long time ago. There are so many things that have gone virtual digital. I love that I still get your Choice Magazine in the mail. It’s in my hand but you’ve made a lot of leadership choices around this. Despite me being a coach and us taking all this time to talk about coaching, which is super fun, this is a leadership podcast. I want to talk about the leadership choices you’ve made and how you made those decisions overnight. 

Thank you. We’re not going to get away from the coaching conversation because the way I evolved as a leader was because of coach training and being coached. One of the biggest and most impactful things was even before Choice. I started and built a third–party logistics company. I was at the same time taking coach training and learned about values. I had friendship, love, and family. It smacked me in the face, it was fairness and equity when I got shafted, if you will, by the management. 

I was a majority shareholder and they left me in the dust. They made some decisions, and it left me in the dust in the whole conversation. I’m forgiving, so I’ll forgive easily, but I won’t forget. That’s a leadership style that I learned through the evolution of coaching and coach training. I’ve always had a coach and learned about how important values are. I always say, if you’re upset about something, it means one of your values was dishonored. That’s super simple. All I ever had to do is look at what was I upset? I was upset because there was a lack of fairness and equity, and trust, to be honest. 

My leadership style became that of exactly that. Do the people that I’m hiring and working with sharing my values? For those that don’t know, most of the time, if you’re the owner of a company, your company takes on the values that you have as a person. One of the values I have is generosity. We’re generous. Let’s say, Melanie, you lost one of your issues of Choice. We wouldn’t argue with you about it or say you didn’t get it. We’ll send you another one. That’s our version of generosity. 

I feel like my heart opened, as you said that. It makes me go, “That’s why I keep paying for that subscription.” I felt my heart open when you said that because I love when people make those kinds of decisions about their business.  

Not only a decision but a realization that turned into the leadership style. The last piece that I’ll say that has impacted my leadership style is the George Floyd incident. That murder impacted me. I got to a point where I couldn’t watch that video of him being killed. I was watching a person being murdered in front of my own eyes. It reminded me how diverse we are on the planet and how undiverse Choice is. When I ran that third party logistics company, I recognized it back then and I said, “We’ve got to change this,” and I asked for help. Within a year, we are changed into a multicultural, diverse, and BIPOC positive environment. I’m a gay guy. Sometimes you think, “Should I clued into this a long time ago?” In 2020, I looked at my editorial board of directors, and they’re all a bunch of white women and Garry. It was the same time, “We’ve got to change this.” It didn’t mean we changed the quality of the people we attracted. It changed the Implementations that went out. 

Business Coaching: If you’re upset about something, it means one of your values was dishonored.

My new year’s resolution and I haven’t spoken about it on my show. My new year’s resolution was we would prioritize BIPOC and women’s voices and elevate them on my show, but I still do believe that there are amazing guests that are white men. I didn’t want to exclude them. The decision I made is that I want to have a conversation with every one of them because no one’s talking to those people who are in privilege. I asked them to talk about what they see and share about how they see women and people of color succeeding in leadership. I ask them to weigh in because that conversation isn’t happening much and they’re not being asked or they differ. I want them to weigh in. I want them to talk about their leadership exactly like you are and we didn’t talk about this before. I love that you saw where it wasn’t right and you worked to get help to fix it. It’s amazing, the wisdom in all the voices, as I’ve made that New Year’s resolution. 

One other thing that you might want to add and this is something I added to my leadership style, my way of being. When I’m with a group of people, and it’s diverse, and this topic is about diversity or whatever, or I’m talking one-on-one, I give you permission to let you know if I’m having that white man of privilege speak. Where I’m saying things that to you are insulting, but to me, I’m unaware that it is. There’s this lightness then that they have the permission to be themselves and not have that black versus white conversation. We know there’s a difference. 

I’m part of The Gay Coaches Alliance and if we have a guest speaker that’s not a guy, the conversation changes. If you have a group of women, and you have a man show up in your group, the conversation changes. It does. Recognizing that the conversation has been different, and allowing it to name that energy in the room has made a world of difference for me because they’ll correct me even if I blurt out that part wrong. I’m like, “You have permission to let me know when I’m being an ass is what I’m saying.” 

I’m going back again. It wasn’t only George Floyd. I want to add some to that. It was the Association of Coach Training Organization in Victoria BC, when they held their conference and it was all about this diversity but in a way that was revealing, and in your face, but not in a way that made you feel bad. They called us out as who we were. There was a woman on stage and she said, “I’m a white woman of privilege,” and talked about what that meant, how she walked through the world, and how white men have the privilege and all this stuff. At first, it was uncomfortable and I realized, “Yes, that’s true so how am I?” I walk around in my building, I’m in a condo building in Toronto.  

If you google or say, “Google. Siri, what’s the most multicultural city in the world?” Toronto comes up. Let’s put it there. I now wonder how I occurred to people as I walked through the building. Are they Indian people that were under British rule? Are black people that still have a memory of a history of slaves and slave trading? I’m that person. I don’t know how I occurred to them. It’s about watching reactions and not getting caught up in it. Having that leadership style that’s a lot more aware of what’s going on. 

I had my a-ha moment and the pivotal moment for me was when Black Lives Matter shut down Toronto Pride. Was it a few years ago? I don’t know exactly what year it was. At the time, I’m not proud of my reaction, but I found it annoying that Black Lives Matter shut down Broadcast Pride because pride was clear space. It was something that I valued. I gave myself a talking to and I said, “You better go learn more before you decide what you think.” I started to dive into what the messaging was, what people were saying, I started to listen and I changed. 

I realized how attached I was to the party and essentially to the white party that I needed to allow that to go away. I wanted to start to understand and embrace concepts of intersectionality and a deeper understanding. It was real work. I had to do real work. I had to let go of things inside myself that were deep. I found places I didn’t like, but it allowed me to find a more peaceful place to go forward in a learner’s mind, so when I see things or I hear things, I’m curious. I try to go into them with curiosity rather than a quick decision that I don’t understand. That was my moment. 

It’s interesting that the words that we didn’t speak of didn’t have that click in our vocabulary a few years ago, intersectionality. You’ve reminded me of something that also, doing deep work, I was on the ICE, International Coach Education Training board committee on social justice in coaching, education or something like that. I was with a group of people from around the world and this time, I was the white guy. 

There was maybe one other one and there were all these other people. I noticed right away that some of them were either afraid of speaking up because I was there and others chose to see me as the red flag, the bull, and got enraged by the white guy in the room. I played the part of the white guy and I said, “I don’t know exactly what’s going to come out of me being there, but maybe what the role I’m considering playing here is to help me, help other white guys who might only listen to me and not understand what’s going on.” It’s like I’m a channel. 

I’m so struck by what you’re saying, Garry, and I hear this piece that you’re always going to be the white guy. You’re tall and you’re handsome. I see pictures and I’m like, “That guy’s handsome.” You’re always going to be that no matter how much you learn, take in, how much of an advocate you become, how much of an ally you are, you’re still going to be a tall white guy. That’s such an interesting thought but there is a leadership skill that you can wrap around, saying, “No matter what I learned, I’m still going to be an old white guy.” 

I always add on to that, “So use me. I’m an ally.” One of the biggest words I got out of this was allyship. It’s like, “I’m always going to be the white guy of privilege.” I am. I’ve accepted that and I get that sometimes it makes me feel a little, “Ugh,” but it’s the truth. That’s who I am. That’s what I help other people understand, too. I’m still who I am, but get over that and see who I am for you and who I can be for you. That could be an ally, advocate, activist or whatever role you need me to play. I’m always a yes until I’m a no. That’s my biggest problem. I’m generous on that part. It’s fun being that way because it leads to what you said about curiosity, always being curious. It’s like, “Tell me more.” It’s almost like I challenge them to keep telling me enough, so I’ll be forced to say no, but they keep telling me more and I keep being more of a yes. 

You’ve done international leadership in a way that few people get to do. I’m touched in this moment that you are showing up to be open and to hold that come from of, “Keep telling me more. I want to learn.” It’s such a beautiful model and for all of us who grapple with living in privilege having the lights turn on, and seeing something else. What do we do with that? How do we grapple with that? How do we learn allyship? How do we elevate other voices? Who are we? Because I know I grapple with that. Many people I know, grapple with that and I want to be incredibly and deeply respectful. I’m sure I fail regularly because it’s a journey that doesn’t have an easy answer. 

Here’s a big reveal for me and I never realized this until we started talking. One of the reasons I love coaching is because I love hearing people’s stories. That whole social justice journey was a series of those people’s stories. A lot of us did a lot of work that got done in the background, but the conversations were about what was going on. One woman with zero accent, she couldn’t have walked anywhere in any town she’s never been. She went back to Mississippi and had bottles thrown at her on the street, because she was black, a person of color. Just because she was a person of color and highly educated. It’s this whole thing about if we didn’t have Zoom, wonder what coaching will be if we didn’t make those visual judgments or follow those visual cues, and we spoke to their voice. There are all kinds of ways of looking at it. Always learning and always growing. 

Where can people find you, Garry? 

Business Coaching: If you’re the owner of a company, your company takes on the values that you have as a person.

I can be found everywhere. I’m on LinkedIn. I’m on Twitter. If you’re a coach, I’d love for you to know more about Choice Magazine and get a free digital issue by going to Choice-Online.com. If you decide you’d like to subscribe, I have a special offer for your readers at 25% off on a subscription FRIENDSOFCHOICE25 and you’ll get 25% off checkout on anything that you buy. Google Garry Schleifer I know that’s a pain in the butt but you can hit Global Garry. I’ve made it a job of making sure I could be found anywhere. 

It has been such a joy to connect. I love you a little bit more after this conversation. Thanks for taking time out of your busy life to come and chat with me about leadership. 

It’s my pleasure. I want to thank you. This we live in our little bit of isolated world. You said, “You’re into your international leadership.” I’m like, “I was part of a group tonight doing a piece of work for an international organization,” but when you set it that way, I’m like, “Yeah, I did.” 

Thank you. 

Thank you so much for having me. 

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I’ve been talking to Garry Schleifer, about his open–hearted approach to creating diversity and the organizations he’s a part of. Accepting his place as a privileged, white man, and opening the conversation to see how he can be useful to the ideals of equity and diversity in those same organizations. His open-hearted approach gives the opportunity for feedback loops and dialogue that helps people find their true north in those organizations. It’s been a pleasure speaking with Garry. I love all the things that he’s trying. How can you be a force for change in the organizations you’re a part of? No matter who you are, go experiment. 

Important Links: 

• Coaches Training Institute 
• inviteCHANGE 
• Freedom Bootcamp for Entrepreneurs 
• Garry Schleifer – LinkedIn 
• Marcia Reynolds 
• Coach the Person, Not the Problem 
• Choice Magazine 
• altMBA 
• The Gay Coaches Alliance 
• Twitter – Garry Schleifer 

About Garry Schleifer

Garry is a seasoned businessman bringing over 30 years of experience to his coaching. His “walk the talk” credentials draw from experience as the visionary behind several multimillion-dollar corporations. Applying an approach of “Ruthless Compassion” when helping his business owner clients. 
Challenging clients with transformative coaching, rigorous goals, an innate sensitivity, good humor, and non-judgment.

He earned his coach credentials at Coaches Training Institute, a Certified Mentor Coach certificate from inviteCHANGE, and PCC from International Coach Federation (ICF). The owner and publisher of choice, the magazine of professional coaching, (www.choice-online.com) Past President of Toronto ICF Chapter, Vice President ICF Global Board and served on several, community-based boards. His recent project, “Free Time Bootcamp for Entrepreneurs. Creating more free time so you can have more ME time!” is a labor of love combining his years of training and experience to bring freedom back to business owners. He lives with his husband Patrick in Toronto, Canada.

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